Unsolved

00:00 In July of 1987, 27-year-old Antoinette Smith went to a David Bowie concert at Slane Castle. Antoinette was a busy full-time mother and the night out was extra exciting because it was so rare. 00:13 When Antoinette kissed her two daughters Lisa and Rachel goodbye that summer's day in Dublin, none of them had any idea that they would never see each other again. 00:25 Antoinette never came home. Her body was found nine months later. Despite a decades long Garda investigation and tireless efforts from Antoinette's friends and family, Antoinette Smith's murder is unsolved. 00:50 I'm crime journalist Barry Cummins. 00:52 And I'm RTE presenter Katia Mia and this is Unsolved, an RTE true crime podcast series. 00:59 Each week we'll be taking an in-depth look at real Irish cases seeking justice for the victims of Ireland's unsolved crimes. 01:07 Barry, today we are talking about the unsolved murder of Antoinette Smith. And this one, I find myself, it's quite harrowing because she was a young woman in her 20s, a mother of two that was just robbed from this world far too early. She was born Antoinette Green before she was married in October of 1959. 01:26 She was known as Angie to her family. And she was the youngest sibling and the only girl in the Green family of five. She had four older brothers. There was Noel, there was Alan, Tommy, Cyril as well. And I suppose being the youngest and the only girl in a family full of boys, you learn how to defend yourself. You learn how to speak up for yourself. I think every younger sibling is kind of like that. And she had that spirit in her as well. She was capable of standing up for herself. 01:52 Yeah, everybody I've spoken with who remembers Antoinette Smith, Angie, would talk about somebody who was confident, who was capable, who was chatty, who was somebody who'd leave an impression. So, yeah, she as the youngest in a family of five and with these four older brothers, she she was able to fight her corner as well. And they all loved her dearly. 02:15 So she's very fondly remembered by everybody who knew her. And as we talk about this case, it's so important in and of itself. But also as we go along in this case, whoever murdered Antoinette Smith and the detail we'll get into is the kind of person who may well have killed other people, murdered other people. 02:36 Yeah. Talking about how she, you know, kept herself and looked after herself. It was it was a big part of her life because a lot of people mightn't have known this in her personal life, but she was dealing with alopecia quite privately. She only told her family and she wore wigs and she really cared about how she looked. And the wigs, you know, they'd be consistent like in in lengths, you know, they wouldn't be that drastic in the change of length. And also the hair color would be quite consistent with her own natural hair color. But this is something that she kept private. 03:07 And I suppose when you think about hair, it's like your crown. 03:10 Yeah, I think it's instructive to know that the alopecia came when she was about eight years old, eight or nine years old. But she just got on with it. And I think that's kind of very informative as well, that she dealt with something that hit her at eight, nine years old and just got on with it. 03:31 Yeah. And I suppose by the time of her disappearance and her murder, like she'd been dealing with alopecia for the guts of two decades here as well. It's just something to remember as we deep dive into this story. But we get to 1978. She's 18 years old and she finishes school, gets a job at Super Quinn in Walkenstown, which is now the Super Valley in Walkenstown. I've been inside it. It's kind of it's always been there. 03:54 Yeah. I was in it many years ago when it was Super Quinn, did many a family shop there. 04:01 And it was one of the big shopping centres in South Dublin. And to think that Antoinette Smith worked there only for a short time. 04:08 But in her late teens, that was one of her outlets. So she was making her own money at that stage. 04:14 She was local to the area, having lived in Crumlin and Walkenstown as well. 04:19 And I suppose a very exciting time, late 70s for her and about to embark as an adult in the world. Yeah. And all the hopes and dreams she would have had. 04:31 Starting off her life and an exciting time for a main reason, like she got married in 1979. So she only stayed in Super Queen. for a year and she leaves work entirely upon getting married and i suppose this is just five years after the marriage bar that was lifted in 1973 and i suppose the culture in ireland was very much so if you're a woman and if you were working by the time you got married you would leave to look after the home look after kids if you had kids so do you think it was something that was still advised or just culturally other women around you in your life would have done the same so you would have done the same 05:04 I think there was a cultural part to it. All right. So the marriage bar had been lifted in 73, 1973, which specifically was focused on the civil service where women had to leave up until then. If they got married, had to leave the government jobs, as it were. And but it kind of filtered through into the private sector as well, where culturally. 05:27 And this is a time when there wouldn't have been as many creches as there are today. So child minding was not a business outside of the house. Yeah, wasn't as accessible. There were some, but it was maybe local to the estate that somebody might live in, that somebody, an entrepreneur would would set up their own child minding. And so it was kind of expected of many people that if they had children, that the mother would be back in the house from then on. 06:00 It wasn't always the case, but that was the Ireland of the time. Yeah. 06:05 Antoinette was married at a young age. So she was 19. Carl, her husband, was young as well. He was he just turned 20. So they were a young married couple. And then they they have children quite quickly. 06:19 Lisa arrived soon and then Rachel afterwards. So two young girls in in the in the family home and Antoinette. as the mother is at home with the kids. 06:33 She had her hands full. She had her hands full. 06:35 That's a busy, busy time for her. It is. 06:36 Two girls. Lisa Smith was seven at the time of Antoinette's disappearance, and Rachel Smith was four at the time of her disappearance. But when we talk about Antoinette, meaning Carol Smith, this is when Antoinette Green becomes Antoinette Smith. And Carol, you worked at the Semperit Tire Factory in Clamndawkin. So they were like a busy household. He was out working. She was looking after the kids. So in late 1984, that's when the family move into Kilmahudger Court in Klondocken. That's their family home. And a separation occurred. 07:07 Yeah, it was actually it was a little later. So they're eight years into their marriage when they they agree to separate. So they've had a good run up to them, but then they both realize that it's not a long-term marriage. But they're stuck, like so many other couples were stuck during those times. Divorce wasn't an option back then. 07:33 So the most that a couple could do was separate and have legal separations. 07:38 But again, it was complex legal issues that needed to be ironed out about access to children and contributing to the household. 07:48 And remember that this was a one income family when they were together. And then it was still a one income family when they were separating as well. But I think with Carl and Antoinette, they were quite practical about things as well. And it was quite amicable in terms of the way they were going to figure things out. They were on good terms. 08:09 as a separating couple in early 1987. And I think it wouldn't always be the case with other couples. I mean, people can separate because they really need to be very far away from each other. 08:21 In this case, that wasn't the case. 08:23 Especially with two kids involved, you know, give credit where credit is due. I think they were very mature about their separation. They did get married quite young and they're still quite young separating. But they were very cordial about this. And like you said, it was a single income household. Carol was working at the Semper Tower Factory in Clundalkin. And he was giving Antoinette £60 a week as maintenance for her kids because obviously she wasn't working at the time and still had to take care of Rachel and Lisa. She was the primary caretaker of her two daughters. So I can imagine, you know, being a busy woman. 08:53 full-time mom of two. Your hands are quite full. There's not many nights out that you get. 08:59 There's not. And where they were living as well, the Kilmahudrick estate in Clendalkan was one of these newer estates as well as Dublin, South Dublin kind of extended tallow was being built up and clandalkin was being built up out in that southwest part of the county that you might have a good solid decent house there might be an awful lot else around the shops and shopping centers would come later so There was a bit of isolation as well. Yeah. As people began with their family life. 09:34 Yeah. There was very little else. 09:36 To do socially. 09:37 Yeah, that was the thing. And you had to be on a good bus route or you had to have friends around you. But you had to plan your nights out as well. It wasn't as simple as let's head out on a Friday or Saturday. Well, who's going to mind the kids? And also, where are we going to go? How are we going to get back? So nights out weren't as plentiful. 09:57 When we get to Antoinette's last day and night here, it is the 11th of July. This is Saturday in 1987. And Antoinette is planning to go and see David Bowie in Slingcastle. He is playing as part of his Glass Spider tour. And she is ready for a night out. She's ready to have a good time with her friend. She's going with her best friend, Marie. And this is important to note, the outfit that she was wearing, because this is going to come up. She had a denim jacket on, the Sass Perla brand jeans, denim jeans, a T-shirt as well. 10:29 She was also carrying a red and black Texaco bag at the time. 10:33 Yeah, the bag's important because the bag has never been found. And it's a common enough bag as well. People have... A particular generation or generations will remember the Texaco black and red bags you'd put over your shoulder. 10:48 And you could bring them to the gym, go swimming, whatever, that they had that good durable material. And you could fit a lot in. And certainly if you're heading off to a concert, you could fit a few things in as well. So common bags. But the one that Antoinette had was... on the last day of her life when she went to slain to David Bowie, that bag was never found. 11:11 Yeah. And of course, we had mentioned beforehand that she wasn't afforded many nights out. So this is something that had to be planned. Antoinette had met Carl the day before, so on the 10th of July at Crumland Shopping Centre, to arrange childcare, or basically if Carl was going to come over to the house to look after the kids or if the kids would go to his own personal accommodation. Everything was set up here. The arrangement was that Antoinette was going to stay the night in her friend Marie's house. She actually lived in the same estate as her, Barry. Not the same road, but the same estate. 11:42 So... Antoinette was going to go back to Kilmer Hudrick, but not back to the family home. So Carl was staying over in the house that night with Lisa and Rachel, and this had been arranged with Antoinette. So Antoinette was going to stay with Marie because Marie was a neighbor, not a next door neighbor, but a neighbor in the same estate, just around the corner, about a three minute walk away. 12:02 So they made the arrangement. They met up on the day, on Saturday, the 11th of July, the day of the concert. And Carl picked up the two girls on the Nace Road. 12:10 Carl has also given Angie, Antoinette, an extra £30 as well as she heads off to the concert. So this was a kind of a really big a really big time for Antoinette heading off to the concert with her friend. 12:24 I was just going to say, that's really kind of Carol as well. I mean, that's half of the weekly allowance and I'd say £30 was a lot. 12:33 Yeah, it was. And I think... 12:34 Thinking back to the 80s, concerts were not as plentiful as they are now. There was no electric picnic. There was no altogether now. 12:42 Even Fela didn't exist back in the 80s. That came a little later in the early 90s. So Slane was it. If you wanted to go to a concert and have a really good time in Ireland and you loved your music, Slane was about the only show in town for the big, big acts. I think Tim Lizzie came in 81 as the first Then you Bob Dylan and Bruce Springsteen. So Bowie in 87 was massive in Ireland. 13:11 And people who love David Bowie were going to get there. And Antoinette Smith loved David Bowie. This wasn't just, oh, let's go to a concert. She loved Bowie. 13:20 And so this was a really big deal for her to get to go to the concert. 13:25 And She didn't actually have the ticket yet. The whole idea was, and you kind of think this is so exciting. Sure, let's get into Dublin. Let's get the tickets and let's go. And that's exactly what will happen, that they do this. So they don't have the tickets pre-booked. It'll be a physical ticket. There's nothing on a phone or anything the way it is now. It's actually go buy your ticket. Yeah. 13:45 It's mad to think that because everything is so planned today. You know, you'd have about three tabs open on your laptop, your phone, all to get a ticket. And to think Antoinette, you know, she's going into town with her friend Marie. They're just going to buy the ticket there and hope for the best, really. 13:59 And that's the kind of the confidence of it. Have a plan and it'll actually happen. So that's what they're going to do. And it will actually happen. They will get to the concert. So they say goodbye to the girls. on the nace road and say goodbye to carl and lisa uh will always remember and has spoken about it uh walking off at her dad and just turn him back to look back at her mum as as uh auntie goes the other way with marie and lisa remembers to this day looking back over her looking back behind her seeing her mom walk away not knowing that that's the last time she will ever see her mother. 14:39 Yeah. 14:39 Ever. 14:40 It's just, it's heartbreaking to think that image, you know. 14:42 That simple, simple moment. Yeah. 14:45 And it's fixed in a seven year old's mind. Yeah. 14:49 And she lives with that to this day. That's the last memory of her mom. 14:53 So we get to 12 p.m. on Saturday, the 11th of July, 1987. Antoinette and Marie arrive in Dublin City Centre. They have a plan. They're confident. They purchased two tickets to see David Bowie. And they also get two David Bowie Slain 87 merchandise T-shirts. And that's another thing to note for later on. But they head on and they go to a shop. They buy two flagons of cider for their trip over to Slane. And they go to a fast food restaurant called Burgerland. And that's where they change T-shirts in the toilets. 15:24 So now she's in her outfit, which is the denim jacket, the denim jeans, the David Bowie Slane 87 T-shirt and her Texaco bag. 15:31 Yeah. So the T-shirt that she's got and the Marie has a matching T-shirt. It's a grey black T-shirt with pink writing and even getting the tickets. 15:42 There were really two places you get your concert tickets back then. Eason's was one and Golden Discs was the other. So. 15:51 You knew exactly where to go to get your ticket and then you knew where to go to get your bus right along by the keys, along by the Liffey. So it was all kind of organized. 16:00 But there have been a lot of queues. 16:02 Yeah. OK. Yeah, there would have been queues, but queues that move. Yeah. And you can just imagine the excitement. 16:07 Yeah. 16:08 That day. That so many people in Dublin City were actually on their way to County Mead, on their way to Slane, that Dublin was kind of going to empty by the middle of the day. But that the bus routes and the private coaches and everybody offering transport, it was all kind of centered in Dublin City. Get into Dublin and you'll get to Slane. There was no way of getting from the Nace Road or from Clendalkin out to Slane. You had to head into the city. And then head on. 16:35 So it's 2.30 p.m. Antoinette and Marie are boarding that bus for Slane Castle. They're wearing their Bowie t-shirts. They have their cider in hand. It is a trek, but you're prepared for it. And you almost enjoy the journey as well, because I know you've been to Slane to see it was a Guns N' Roses. 16:49 Yeah, five years after Bowie, Guns N' Roses was the next concert at Slane in 1992. I think it was around five o'clock in the morning before I got back home to Tala. So it's a long, long day. 17:03 Yeah, it's a long journey. 17:03 But it's such a memorable day. To this day, I have memories of being at Slane, very vivid memories. I actually got into the mosh pit, blagged my way in to get to the front. 17:15 Was this when you had your earring, Barry? 17:17 Yeah, around that time, actually, yeah. I can picture it. Maybe a year or two afterwards. But yeah, it was in and around that time. 17:23 And Antoinette and Marie get to Slane on that day at about half two in the afternoon. Yeah. with their Bowie t-shirts and their cider. And about half three, that's when the concert sort of opening acts begin. Aslan were opening for David Bowie. And they actually have a song called Angie. It's a cover to a Rolling Stone song that you love, Barry. 17:43 I do, yeah. I actually think Aslan did it did it better, that the cover is better than the original. It's a wonderful song. 17:52 And yeah, it strikes me that there you have Angie Ash Slane in 1987. She's there to see Bowie, but also she's there when Aslan are playing 18:02 And she was spotted by a couple of people. This is a known thing to Garrity in statements. She was there with Marie. She was spotted. So we know for a fact that Antoinette and Marie were at Slane Castle. It's recorded anyway that Marie and Antoinette, they have a good time at the David Bowie concert. It's a successful day out at Slane at 11 p.m. on that Saturday, the 11th of July, 1987. 18:26 They board the special concert bus back to Dublin and the night is still young. You know, they're feeling good vibes and I'm sure they want the night to go on a bit. Maybe they want to head up for a drink and they head off to the Harp Bar on O'Connell Street for a drink. 18:41 This is around 1130. Yeah. So I think thinking about the times, that's early. 18:46 You've had a great concert, great time. It's a lovely summer's day. You're back in Dublin city. Uh, yeah, there could be last buses heading back, you know, half 11, you might get on the last bus to wherever, uh, head home, but you have the other option, which is, Hey, we're in Dublin city. It's only 11 o'clock. Uh, so naturally, uh, Angie and Marie, like so many other people, stayed out. 19:11 And when you're thinking about it, you know, Antoinette had childcare sorted for that night. You know, Carol was staying over that whole night. She had plans to stay with Marie. So, of course, they're going to take advantage of that. So they go to the heart bar for a drink and they keep the night going on around 12 o'clock on the morning of July 12th. Antoinette and Marie go to La Mirage Nightclub. This is on Parnell Street. 19:32 Yeah, La Mirage on Parnell Street. And this is a good venue that many people went to down the years that changed names many a time as well, because there weren't too many places in Dublin City in the late 80s or early 90s that you could go out dancing, drinking into the early hours. So La Mirage was one. It changed its name down the years. 19:55 Like at one stage, it was Fibber McGee's. I went to it a couple of times when it was fibbers. 20:01 And they bumped into two men they actually knew from their local area inside La Mirage. They actually have a drink there. They socialize. They dance with these guys. And Antoinette and Marie, at this point, they've had a long day. They've probably been... tipping away at the drinks. They're drunk, but they're not blackout. They're nowhere near blackout drunk. They're just having a good time. They're waved. They're tipsy. 20:22 Yeah. And I have, during my research down the years, I've come across different bits of information and I have Marie herself, a deposition she would later give to the inquest into Antoinette's murder into her death into her murder so Marie is a really important witness in the whole in the whole case and her good friend who was with her that day and she outlines she says we went to La Mirage where we had a pint of harp each and at this stage we were fairly drunk and we danced and understandably like many other people they would have had a good few drinks that day but they were so they had a few drinks but they were able to dance and that's I'd be surprised if they weren't at the end of such a good day. 21:08 Speaking of Marie, I do find this part of the story. It's so interesting. After they left La Mirage Nightclub with the two men, it was Antoinette Marie and the two men. Marie actually wants to go home. Antoinette wants to keep going with the night out, which is so fair. Like we said, the childcare was sorted and the night was still young. But Marie gives her house key to Antoinette. 21:29 Yeah. 21:30 And then Marie thumbs a lift home. That's how it was. I thumb a lift home. Yeah. Essentially hitchhiking, would you say? 21:36 Yeah. And she wouldn't have been the only person that night coming a lift out of Dublin City because trying to get to suburbia wherever at that hour. 21:46 even if you could find a taxi. Yeah. That they would might, would they bring in particular directions? 21:52 But we know Marie herself says she thumbed the lift home to her own home. 21:56 It's so interesting because, you know, I would, you know, I'd consider that like not safe, but it was completely normal in society to thumb a lift home because you didn't have Uber. There was no night links at the time. 22:08 Yeah, it was. There were some buses, but not enough. Yeah. And so on that day, Many people would have been thumbing lifts and offering lifts and because people were kind of maybe their guard was down a little bit more. Everybody was on a high. What a great day. Great concert. 22:26 Everybody feels good. But ordinarily, people would thumb lifts as well. Yeah. Right around the country. 22:33 And I know even jumping ahead seven years, eight years after after this, Jojo Dollard in California. County Kildare, who has never been found since in 1995, she was thumbing lifts trying to get home to County Kilkenny when a killer struck there. 22:51 So people did thumb lifts a lot. Now, back that night, what happened was Marie wanted to go home, as you say, Katya, and Antoinette wanted to stay out. 23:03 And they had, Marie had two keys. So basically, she threw the key over to Antoinette, the spare key, there you are, I'm going home. 23:13 And Antoinette wanted to stay out. Yeah. So Marie headed off home and Antoinette stayed out. 23:21 And Marie got home safe. She got back to her home in Climndalkin. And now we get to a point early Sunday morning around 2 a.m., 2.15am, two men, the two men that Antoinette and Marie were with in La Mirage nightclub, they actually head home, those two guys. 23:38 Yeah. 23:38 And we know this. 23:39 Yeah, so we know it from the taxi driver who brought them home. So... what the men had told later told Gardie many, many months later when this becomes a murder investigation, they tell Gardie when they're tracked down. One of them was actually in America by the time he was spoken with. But they say, yeah, they were in La Mirage. They were with Marie and Antoinette Smith and that they had walked with Antoinette. The two men down, began walking down O'Connell Street. But the two men then went over and got a taxi out to Ballymun. 24:13 And that the last they saw of Antoinette was she was walking down say halfway between where the Savoy Cinema is and where Cleary's, the Cleary's building is. 24:22 That's kind of where the taxi rank was located at the time as well. 24:25 They would have been able to, the two men would have been able to cross over. We know they got to Ballymun because the taxi driver who brought them, he was tracked down months later by Gardaí as well. He actually knew one of the men so he could remember the journey. He could remember dropping them home. 24:42 So that was something that Gardaí had properly investigated, who were the last people known to be with Antoinette. But these men were fully investigated and had gone home. So the last we know, we can say the last reported sighting of Antoinette alive is walking down O'Connell Street, heading towards O'Connell Bridge. 25:08 And what happens next is To this day is a mystery. 25:13 And we'll bring in Carl Smith. He is still Antoinette's legal husband. They are separated and he had childcare sorted for the night. He was looking after their two daughters, Lisa and Rachel, in their home in Kilmahudrick. And we get to midday of Sunday, the 12th of July, 1987. 25:32 And Carol Smith bumps into Marie in Clundalkin and asks about Antoinette. Where is she? Have you seen her? And Marie herself doesn't know because the plan was obviously that Antoinette was to stay in Marie's house with her or at least come home to Marie's house. But that's when the alarm is immediately raised, at least to Carol himself. And he starts the search straight away. Obviously, before mobile phones and social media, you can't really put up a post to say someone you love is missing or someone you know is missing. So all the searches were done either on landline or in person. 26:03 And Marie is there to help Carol, also Antoinette's family. And they're looking for Antoinette for two days. 26:10 Yeah, I can think about the frustration that they must have felt. 26:15 And that time when before mobile phones, before all the traditional ways now of raising alarms, you can raise an alarm about somebody in seconds by putting it out on social media. 26:30 it can just fly, like information can fly around the world really quickly now. Back then it couldn't. It couldn't even fly around Clendalkin or Dublin or Ireland in any fast way. So I can think about the frustration, but also how the way things were, how the alarm isn't raised for a day or two. It's not natural that Antoinette hasn't arrived home on the Sunday, But maybe she had stayed somewhere else. 27:00 Maybe she couldn't get a lift out of Dublin City. Maybe she's with somebody. 27:05 Carl is checking with her family. Have they seen her? He thought she was with Marie initially. It's only when everyone gets talking with each other. 27:15 But Carl knew she was due back on Sunday and she didn't arrive back. But he's also minding the girls at that stage while trying to ask around. And so that kind of, he can't just leave the girls and go looking. 27:27 And then he stays off work on the Monday because he has to, because he's still minding the girls, even though he's meant to have gone back on the Monday. 27:35 So there's frustration and there's worry there naturally from Carl. 27:40 And after the two days of searching kind of locally with friends and family, We get to Tuesday, the 14th of July, and this is when Kyle reports Antoinette missing to Clendock and Garda Station. But there's no sense of urgency from the Garda initially, Barry. Antoinette, I suppose she's a 27-year-old adult. She's legally married. She's a mother of two. She was last seen and joined the company. of two male friends. 28:05 Is that maybe the reason why things weren't taken as seriously at the beginning or the alarm wasn't raised by the Gardie initially? 28:12 I think it's one of the reasons. I think just generally in the 1980s and I think also into the 1990s that until it was too late, Gardie didn't realize the extent of the number of murderers who were out there who were targeting in particular, targeting women. 28:31 They just had no grasp of it. Yeah, I think that's one thing. But also there was no in this case, there was no smoking gun, no crime scene, no cry for help, no scream. 28:43 Nobody reported in distress or anything like that. And Antoinette as an adult was entitled to go missing. If she wanted to, it wasn't a crime. 28:53 It might be worrying to her family, but she could if she wanted to. 28:56 Yeah. 28:56 And there was that mindset of Gardaí as well. But I think it hadn't happened before in this sense that and we'll talk about it as we go on, that Antoinette is the first of a number of women to disappear in the late 80s into the 90s. 29:12 So that's certainly by the end of the 90s, Gardaí are really alert to women not coming home when they should. But back then they were kind of, ah, sure, she'll turn up, that kind of mindset. So don't be worrying. I'm sure she'll turn up eventually. 29:28 Because I'm sure over time we will mention the Vanishing Triangle. Would you say Antoinette Smith's case was probably the very beginning of that Vanishing Triangle being established? 29:38 Yeah, I think so. And Although we don't know who murdered Antoinette, I do think from the circumstances as we go through it, whoever did it was opportunistic, was comfortable in the presence of her body in that they were able to bring her to where they later hid her body. They were able to successfully get away with it. And whoever did that I think would definitely be somebody or some people, if it's more than one person who would do it again, who might have had a taste for it then to talk about it in that way, that they they were an extreme danger to women generally. 30:18 before and even more so after Antoinette was murdered. So she may well be the first of a number of cases of perhaps of a serial killer. 30:27 Yeah. And it's not until Antoinette Smith has been missing for a week that Gardie take proper notice. A case file is opened and her name is released publicly by Gardie as a missing person. She's officially declared as a missing person. Now, right at this point, there's not significant media interest in this case. RTE were the only station at the time. There wasn't any other national news outlets out there. So her case, as we know it, you know, we've checked the archives. It wasn't actually reported on at the time. 30:58 No. And there was no other competition for RTE as a broadcaster back then. There was no there wasn't even local radio back then. It was RTE or nothing in terms of broadcast radio and television. And yeah, we've checked the archives. 31:13 We certainly will talk about reporting after her body is found in 1988. But back in 1987, nothing, no reports carried of a missing woman, a woman who should have arrived home to her. young children who where there's no rational explanation for her not being home and great concern that her family have, but that that's not carried by the media. 31:40 Yeah. 31:41 And I think things are different now. A lot more reporting of missing persons cases now, a lot more concern. But I do think we have to acknowledge that there wasn't any real reporting of Antoinette Smith as a missing person for nine months. Yeah, she's missing and Nobody outside of her family or the Gardaí or her friends know that Angie's missing. 32:07 Yeah, and we know what missing persons case is. Time is of the essence, you know. Time is so sensitive here and the help of media is, you know, greatly appreciated for her immediate family that are really at the helm of this search. So it's really Carol Smith here and the Green family that are looking for her. And Carl Smith, he was probably he was one of the first people to be interviewed by Gardie. And it's usually the partner that's the number one suspect in missing persons cases or unsolved murders. 32:39 But not this time, Barry. 32:41 No, I mean, Carl was was interviewed by Gardie. He was the man who raised the alarm. But they also had to establish where had he been and he was able to show sure he was minding the girls and he was in Clendalkin. 32:52 And that should have raised the alarm of Gardie even more so then, because as they investigated all of Antoinette's friends and family and had she been in contact with any of them. And as it became more and more apparent that the answer wasn't somebody known to Angie or closely related or that it was something other. And the other is what would seem to me like an opportunistic random abduction and murder. 33:24 that Gardie didn't become that concerned initially that that was what had happened, but that they did interview anyone who knew Angie. 33:37 And they should have known then that the answer was what I would say people's worst fears, a random attacker who had targeted a woman in Dublin City or elsewhere, fixated on her, maybe followed her down O'Connell Street or got into her company somewhere along the way. Something was going on in the late 80s and into the 90s that we now know that there were a number of murderers who were targeting women And then hiding their bodies. And it's only now we can really grasp that this has happened. 34:11 But back in 1987, as Antonia Smith has come back into Dublin from slain from that concert, I wonder was somebody had somebody come into Dublin specifically to find a woman who might be alone in the city. in the early hours because it would have been such a busy night yeah does somebody say that's a good a good time good place to go because they have the worst of intentions or was it something other that that they just happened to bump into Antoinette along the street and that the murder evolved in in some sense and also is it more than one person because as we get into it that there are a lot of suggestions here that it may well have been more than one person who murdered Antoinette 34:55 Antoinette was a dedicated mother of two, a young, fun-loving woman. Her disappearance had the Gardaí dumbfounded until a disturbing discovery was made on Easter Sunday, 1988. 35:09 With Unsolved, we don't just want to talk about the crimes. We want to help the victims, the survivors and the families seek justice. 35:16 If you know anything, have seen anything or remember anything about any of the cases discussed in our series, please email us at unsolved at rte.ie. 35:28 Join us next week for part two of our series on the murder of Antoinette Smith.